When Ned's Atomic Dustbin front man Jon Penny met Sir Harry Secombe in a Monmouth paper shop, he just couldn't resist asking him to sign his copy of NME. To be fair, it's not everyday you meet the man you named your band after, is it? Jon Penny talks to Nu-sounds.com about life, music and the bit in between.
In 1991 Ned's Atomic Dustbin released their first full-length album
on Sony records and in one sweeping move took the world by storm. God
Fodder achieved a top 5 slot in the album charts and set N.A.D up for
a truly remarkable, and for Jon, unforgettable few years.
"It was crazy! It took us to America, Canada, Japan, Australia,
New Zealand, and all of Europe. Basically what God Fodder did for us
was make the rest of the world want us all at the same time so it meant
that we were on the road for the best part of two years solid."
"The music papers were putting us on the front cover to sell papers;
we were on MTV. When we were in America, every time we pulled into a
town we would go along to the radio station; one, two or three first
before sound check and then after sound check we would be doing interviews.
Even after the shows we were doing interviews! It was just crazy!"
But for Jon, the road to stardom was one of coincidences and happy accidents interlaced with moments of sheer and unadulterated drunken genius. Jon himself never had any dreams of being a rock star for him, being in a band was "something dead cool to do but only as a bit of fun or to try and get on with the same folk who liked the same music as you."
Instead he had aspirations to star on a stage as an actor. It was while studying for his A-levels at Halesowen College that he met the other four members of Neds.
"I didn't get the results I wanted to get into the drama school so I
had to retake for a year. That was the year these guys came to college."
"Some of us had been in bands before Ned's, mine was White Rabbit who
were absolutely rubbish but you've got to start somewhere! I had spilt
with White Rabbits and Alex and Ratt had split from their bands. I was
doing the usual student thing of getting drunk a lot while I was doing
my A-levels and I had talked to separate people at separate times about
forming a band but, because I had been so drunk at that point I forgot
that I had already asked one bass player to join when I asked another.
So, when we turned up for the first rehearsal it was a little bit embarrassing
cause there were two bass players! It was cool and the good thing about
it was that it was not some contrived little gimmick, it just happened
that way and from day one we just had two bass players."
"The good thing was that Alex had his own style of playing before he
came to the Ned's. He was playing a lot of kind of high chord, Peter
Hook kind of stuff so there was room for the two different styles of
bass playing to be going on at the same time."
"We had a lot of ambition and we wanted to be a massive band."
The band had released a couple of singles on an independent label, Chapter 22 Records, before all the major labels started to head hunt the five piece from Stourbridge. In an attempt to retain some control over the way the band operated they took the unusual step of forming their own label, Furtive Records and signed to a major, Sony, under the banner of Furtive.
"We were quite paranoid about becoming a major band; we wanted to keep
the independent vibe going and to keep control over a lot of stuff.
The way a lot of people had contemplated doing that was to start your
own label and sign to the major label as a label, and not as a band
so that you retain all that control over things. That is what we did,
we signed as Furtive Records and that was our kind of identity."
"At the beginning of the deal with Sony I think all parties had the
right idea and were aiming for the right things. We were all in agreement
as to what we were aiming to do but the bottom line is this: signed
as label or signed as band or individual or whatever, at the end of
the day a company like Sony Music is a massive worldwide corporation
and they do have ways of doing things the you end up having to fall
into. So after the honeymoon period there were some problems where their
policies would clash with the way we wanted to do things."
"What you do have to realise when you sign to these major labels is
that they sign you to make you big. They sign you to be as big a band
as they possibly can and unless you say "No, I don't want to be in a
big band, I don't want to be world famous" then they're gonna follow
their policies through and when you sign to them, realistically you
have to accept that that is what you are saying. We had a lot of ambition
and we wanted to be a massive band and there are always going to be
compromises if that is gonna be the case."
After two years on the road the band felt the need to return to the studio and start work on the second album Are you normal? The album did not sell as well as their first offering and only reached number 13 in the album charts. Their third and final album Brainbloodvolume failed to break into the UK charts. In hindsight Jon feels that the band were their own worst enemy at that time.
"We hit critical mass and thought "We don't want to be playing just
these songs anymore. We do want to be offering our fans something new
and ourselves something new so we downed tools and recorded the second
album. In retrospect I think we were a little bit hasty. I think we
should have carried on touring a little bit longer and given ourselves
time to clear our minds a bit and take more time over recording the
second album. You can't be in two places at the same time and if you
can't what happens is the time you get allotted for each thing you gave
to do gets smaller."
"Then the pressure comes. A lot of people think that the record company
must have pushed you to get another record out. Not at all, it's your
own pressure. You can make band decisions yourself; you can be paranoid
about things. We were desperate to get some more stuff written and to
get it out. One of the strange things about guitar bands, especially
in America, is that they can be carrying on the same live circuit, having
the same size crowds everywhere but not selling records".
"The third album didn't even break the charts in this country and that
was mostly because at that point in time they [the label] were trying
hard to capitalise on American interest and to that extent they were
insistent that the last album came out in America first. The problem
was we had been away a long time in this country, concentrating on America,
and so the audiences had kind of waned already and then anyone who was
that interested in the first place went and bought the import. When
we did release over here the core following had already got it or weren't
that bothered."
Ned's Atomic Dustbin had a unique sound that was partly attributable to there two bass set up. It was however their refusal to depend on just one songwriter that led to the generation of such a definitive sound.
"In a typical band you have one or two songwriters. With Ned's everything
had to happen collectively with all five of us stood in a rehearsal
room at the same time. Any ideas had to pass everybody's tastes and
everybody's standards. In the beginning that was what probably made
us sound different to everyone else. In the end that was our big bugbear
because when you grow up you become more of an individual person; you
start knowing what you like and what you want. So when you have got
five adult blokes, stood in a room, trying to agree on something it's
bloody hard work."
In 1995 Jon, Alex, Ratt, Matt and Dan decided to call it quits after they were unceremoniously dropped by Sony.
"At the end of the day it was a business thing well, partly business
and partly karma. The business thing was to do with the fact that money
that had been taken onboard for us to tour the last album was outstanding
when we had only just started to tour it. The record label dumped us
so we had got nowhere that the money was likely to be coming in from
and yet all this money that we were owing people. If we had carried
on trading then we would have all lost our houses. We could have said
'lets stick together through this and see if we can get another deal
with someone else' but we decided that that wasn't the thing to do.
We decided that we had enough trouble writing the third album, that
we'd all grown up and it was time to say 'ok, let's call it quits'."
Jon spent a year away from the musical scene before returning with his new outfit, Groundswell.
"It took me about a year to be brave enough to even try again. It was
deeply hurtful when the Neds split up. I think the hardest thing about
it for all of us was that none of us had had any other job of any kind
before. This was all we had ever known how to do. We weren't up our
own backsides, we weren't pretentious people but all the same, if your
only life experience is being in a band you aren't equipped with a lot
of the stuff other people have got. I found I was thinking that I aught
to be learning to do something else because I have got no skills to
offer anyone else and if doesn't work out then I'm in trouble. But at
the end of the day I just felt that if I could do it well once I could
do it well again and I got a band together that I was quite proud of."
Jon took a different approach to the writing of material, choosing
to do all his work alone at home as apposed to the et al. system that
the Neds had used. The temptation to shy well away from anything that
sounded remotely like Ned's Atomic Dustbin was almost immediately discarded.
With only one bass player, Groundswell were never likely to sound overtly
similar to N.A.D. but there was always going to be one common factor.
Jon's voice.
"I knew I would be crucified if I had two bass players and Groundswell
was probably a lot heavier than the Neds. The other thing that was different
was that I was taking all my work home. I wrote all my melodies on a
four-track and I did loads of backing vocals so we wound up with a lot
of harmonies and a lot more deliberately structured melodies going on."
But things did no go well for Groundswell. In Christmas 1999, Jon called time on this, his second offering to the musical world.
"We weren't selling at all! The difference between the state of things
when I was doing Groundswell and when I was doing Neds is that, when
Neds came through there was massive, vibrant live scene - there isn't
one now - there just plain isn't one there! When the Neds first started
up, if you had got the skill to pay the bills you were gonna make it.
If you could go play regularly and be a good band then you would make
your audience for yourselves - they would grow and be there for you."
"These days it doesn't matter how many gigs you try and book in, it
doesn't matter how many places you play the crowds are not there. They
are not interested if the don't know anything about you and it is as
simple as that."
Being dropped by Sony hit Jon and the other four members of Neds Atomic Dustbin very hard indeed. They had been selling out venues all over America but for some strange reason failed to sell many records. With sales plummeting, Sony Music dropped them like a hot coal and turned their attentions to the next superstar.
"What you have got to remember is that it was the English Sony that
signed us and that particular label has its own budget but it's budget
doesn't not fit worldwide on a rock band. If your George Michael they
do because the rest of the world goes 'Have our money! Well bring you
over'. Not with a guitar band like us. So, you have a little London
label footing the bill for a seven-week American Tours. The bubble has
to burst eventually. The Americans were bunging us on MTV every day
of the week, the Australians DID want us to tour again, Japan wanted
us three times so what happens is they start working with that kind
of budget in mind. They start spending x amount of money on videos to
make damn sure you get on MTV which, incidentally, you cant do. It doesn't
mater how much money you throw at a video, if they like it they like
it. If they don't, they don't. Then there's your £100,000 down the swanny.
"
"The yanks wanted to see us, they're not buying our records but they
still want to see u sin their droves so you have to put money in to
make that tour possible. A tour does not make the band anything; a tour
is promoting a record, which still isn't selling. Tours break even at
best even if you sell thousands of tee shirts!"
"I don't blame Sony for dropping us because what happened was they laid
out loads of money and saw nothing back. You can't complain about the
fact that they give an artist that they sign thee albums to massive
if they can see the potential for that. The thing is that when you are
up you're really, really up, any you probably don't even realise how
up you are. When you are down (laugh) my god are you down."
"One of the real painful things to watch is, not that you begrudge people
a future but, you tend to find the people who do well when a band split
up are the people that you employed around you, helping you. Those people
are crucial, they are friends, they did a great job and you lobe them
all to bits but at the end of the day, when the band splits up they've
got a future and all you have got is whatever people think about your
band. That comes down to taste and that's a real swine of a thing to
have for a C.V.!
In august of last year the Neds reformed at the request of Sam who
was organising a one off show to celebrate 30 years of his venue. Although
sceptical, Jon contacted the other members of Ned's and played a 30
minute set in front of 5000 people.
"I was sceptical at first. When he approached me I said 'I would be
up for it; it would be a laugh but I cant see it's gonna happen to be
and I certainly can't see that the demand in the audience is there to
be honest'. Sam didn't agree and so I said I would ask the question
and get back to him. "
"It came about that there was more enthusiasm from the other lads in
the band than I thought there would be. We didn't do it with the whole
band, I used Andy and Martin from groundswell in place of Ratt and Matt
partly to do with geography partly to with practicality and because
it was not going to be any big deal. So we rehearsed at JB's, which
made it easy, and we did this show at Dudley castle and 5000 people
turned up. We were more stunned than anybody! We were absolutely gobsmacked!
So that sparked a load of new interest and that is pretty much where
all this came from. "
Jon is now a student at Wolverhampton University and still writes music in his spare time. But before I would let Jon leave to see to various bits of Uni business I asked him for advise for all you wannabe rock stars.
"That's a really hard one because you'd think that if I
knew what it was I would be doing it myself! Go to uni, get a real job
and then think about it!!!"
"The advise that I would have always given to anybody at any stage,
regardless of what the mark is, is write, write, write. Just keep on
writing songs. Don't ever, ever think that because you have got a song
that you are really pleased with, that you are all of a sudden a great
band. If you have written one great song you can write 50 great songs!"
"When you think you are tight enough to do a show do another five more
rehearsals because you are not tight enough."
"When you think you will carry the drummer or the bass player because
they are a mate and you don't want to upset them but they're not very
good don't. If you are really serious about making it don't do it. Another
advantage with the Ned's was that to a degree we were in competition
with each other from the start. We didn't know each other as mates,
we knew of each other. Most of had come out of bands that we weren't
happy with because they weren't taking it seriously enough. We all had
higher standards and didn't want to make idiots of ourselves. The lads
were trying to prove to each other that they were good and that competition
was really good for us. Be in a band with your mates and you will be
hard pushed to be able to tell him that is crap and he will be hard
pushed to tell you as well !"
Andy.